Path: santra!tut!draken!kth!mcvax!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!shelby!labrea!brooks@sierra.Stanford.EDU From: brooks@sierra.Stanford.EDU (Michael B. Brooks) Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Re: partial summary of santa fe workshop (long) Summary: RE-POST from alt.fusion, ions & energy loss Keywords: ions, high energy p, t vs gammas Message-ID: <144@sierra.stanford.edu> Date: 31 May 89 17:22:47 GMT References: <TED.89May24004251@kythera.nmsu.edu> <5127@inco.UUCP> <TED.89May25201502@kythera.nmsu.edu> <5139@inco.UUCP> <59@anasaz.UUCP> Sender: brooks@sierra.STANFORD.EDU (Michael B. Brooks) Reply-To: brooks@sierra.UUCP (Michael B. Brooks) Organization: Stanford University Lines: 66 WARNING-Redundant! I apologize in advance to those of you who have already read this dribble, (just press n). I have reposted this from alt.fusion in an effort to stimulate discussion on collisions, energy loss, and nuclear reactions. In particular I`d like to learn a little more about nuclear cross-sections and high energy ions in solids relevant to the CNF. After re-reading the Agenda for the DOE Workshop on Cold Fusion, and thinking about my last post some interesting speculation comes to mind. I said last time that we could invoke alphas to carry away MeV energies from a CNF event and dissipate them into a polycrystalline material through "electro-static like" interactions. This can occur without gammas IF (it`s a big if too) other processes do not contribute much due to low cross-sections. For example if d + d ---> t + p plus MeV energies instead by 3He or 4He, then by this idea high energy t and p ought to divide the E between them, later to be dissipated. All of the same qualifications (ifs and buts) that apply to the alphas apply to these but consider this: * not much gamma seems to be emitted * some neutrons are observed * not much 3He or 4He seems to be emitted (except the unverified Cheves Walling observations) * some degree of heat is evolved * substantial amounts of tritium are evolved It seems plausible that high energy t and p could be the main mediators of energy loss from a CNF event. These particles can produce nuclear reactions and MeV neutrons under appropriate collision circumstances (we have done this with 2.2MeV protons on PtSix thin films by accident, I believe), and perhaps yield some of the neutron emission observed. Other nuclear processes are not excluded and would compete with this and may produce the effects observed. We require that their probability be lower, however, to account for reduced gamma emission. Ions that get stuck (two isotopes of hydrogen) will diffuse out of the Pd(D) saturated lattice(s) due to a chemical concentration gradient existing across the solid-liquid(electrolyte) interface. Consistent with this mode of energy loss is the necessary emission of some xrays---indeed R.Fleming, F.Donahue et.al (Univ. of Michigan) seem to have been thinking along these lines. Did they have a "working" cell when they presented their talk "An Attempt to Measure Characteristic X-Rays from Cold Fusion" ? (Wed, 5/24, 11am) This is definitely something to be looked at if high energy particles are involved. Also Dale Bass must have been thinking about this, this may mean that some of you probably are too. If this is so, please try to find out something about the relative cross- sections of some of these processes. We need to be able to discuss the relative yields of the competing reactions (collisions). CJ Horowitz` paper has some data as regards 3He and 4He products. I have written some more stuff on this, including a description of the "electrostatic like" processes, and range distributions for MeV ion loss, in another post to alt.fusion. I can email this to interested people who would like to discuss this and other topics. Thanks, Mike Brooks/Stanford Electronics Lab (solid state)/SU MIT astronomer Walter Lewin: "Absence of evidence should never be mistaken for evidence of absence."