From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 14:57:05 1996
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 12:57:41 -0700
Message-Id: <199606011957.MAA00666@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com>
To: Kyle Jones <kyle_jones@wonderworks.com>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
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 [WJopW_J.WY;
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: MS Windoze style menu accelerators for XEmacs 
In-Reply-To: <PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>
References: <31AC86EA.5F11@nrs.dowjones.com>
	<199605311842.SAA21873@konishki.bigbook.com>
	<PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>

Kyle Jones writes:
> Christian Goetze writes:
>  > I guess another advantage would be that suddenly, menues might
>  > work even on a terminal - otoh, won't the accelerators collide
>  > with keybindings?
> 
> If this is done just to emulate a particular Windows editor then
> the default Emacs keybindings will presumably be gone anyway.

  Definitely.  You can sort of do this with winEmacs right now (by
accident).  Just sticking an '&' in front of a character causes windows to
set up an accelerator in the menu.  Emacs-W3 ran into this problem with the
'Save & Exit'... It should up as 'Save _Exit' in the menu (with Alt-space
as an accelerator).  I can't remember if this actually worked or if Emacs
snagged the key input early enough in the windows event loop to not do this
(I think its the call to TranslateMessage() that usually does this, but its
been a blessedly long time since I had to do Windows programming)

> Other than that, I don't like the idea.  If we never added
> another keybinding, I think it would still be too soon.

  M-x Amen (or should that be C-M-A-p?  Votes anyone)

-Bill P.

PS: I think it would be a kick if we really did add in the functions 
    M-x amen and M-x praise-be-to-emacs, then when people put that in their
    news postings... :)  Perhaps for 19.15.  Could have hallelujah play
    real loudly if you were on an audio-capable emacsen.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 16:47:13 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: M-x praise-be-to-emacs (was Re: MS Windoze style menu accelerators for XEmacs)
References: <31AC86EA.5F11@nrs.dowjones.com>
	<199605311842.SAA21873@konishki.bigbook.com>
	<PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>
	<199606011957.MAA00666@monolith.spry.com>
X-Url: http://www.miranova.com/%7Esteve/
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From: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
In-Reply-To: William Perry's message of 01 Jun 1996 12:57:41 -0700
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>>>>> "William" == William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com> writes:

William> PS: I think it would be a kick if we really did add in the
William> functions M-x amen and M-x praise-be-to-emacs, then when
William> people put that in their news postings... :) Perhaps for
William> 19.15.  Could have hallelujah play real loudly if you were on
William> an audio-capable emacsen.

Load the file
	ftp://ftp.miranova.com/pub/people/Steve.Baur/im_so_happy.au

Then execute:
(defun praise-be-to-emacs ()
  (interactive)
  (message "Praise be to XEmacs")
  (play-sound-file "im_so_happy.au"))

:-)
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 17:08:54 1996
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 18:10:52 -0400
Message-Id: <199606012210.SAA01862@pez.carroll.com>
From: Peter Pezaris <pez@dwwc.com>
To: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs
In-Reply-To: <m2ybm7fb9d.fsf_-_@deanna.miranova.com>
References: <31AC86EA.5F11@nrs.dowjones.com>
	<199605311842.SAA21873@konishki.bigbook.com>
	<PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>
	<199606011957.MAA00666@monolith.spry.com>
	<m2ybm7fb9d.fsf_-_@deanna.miranova.com>
Reply-To: pez@dwwc.com


    William> PS: I think it would be a kick if we really did add in
    William> the functions M-x amen and M-x praise-be-to-emacs, then
    William> when people put that in their news postings... :)
    William> Perhaps for 19.15.  Could have hallelujah play real
    William> loudly if you were on an audio-capable emacsen.

I thought it was M-x praise-be-unto-emacs
                               ^^^^

The function would have to, of course, behave in some entertaining
manner when it is invoked by the standard

C-u 1 0 0 0 M-x praise-be-unto-emacs RET

-Pez

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 19:34:55 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs
References: <31AC86EA.5F11@nrs.dowjones.com>
	<199605311842.SAA21873@konishki.bigbook.com>
	<PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>
	<199606011957.MAA00666@monolith.spry.com>
	<m2ybm7fb9d.fsf_-_@deanna.miranova.com>
	<199606012210.SAA01862@pez.carroll.com>
X-Url: http://www.miranova.com/%7Esteve/
Mail-Copies-To: never
From: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
In-Reply-To: Peter Pezaris's message of 01 Jun 1996 15:10:52 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.66)
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>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Pezaris <pez@dwwc.com> writes:

Peter> The function would have to, of course, behave in some entertaining
Peter> manner when it is invoked by the standard

Peter> C-u 1 0 0 0 M-x praise-be-unto-emacs RET

O.K.  How about this?

(defvar emacs-praise-sound-file
  "/a/u/Linux/sounds/im_so_happy.au"
  "The name of an audio file containing something to play
when praising Emacs")

(defvar emacs-praise-message
  "All Hail Emacs!\n"
  "What to praise Emacs with")

(defun praise-be-unto-emacs (&optional arg)
  "All Hail Emacs!"
  (interactive "_p")
  (save-window-excursion
    (let ((count (if (null arg)
		     0
		   arg)))
      (with-output-to-temp-buffer "*Praise*"
	(while (> count 0)
	  (progn
	    (princ emacs-praise-message)
	    (setq count (- count 1))))))
    (if (and (featurep 'native-sound)
	     (file-exists-p emacs-praise-sound-file))
	(progn
	  (sit-for 0)
	  (play-sound-file emacs-praise-sound-file))
      (sit-for 10))))

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 20:28:16 1996
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Message-Id: <199606020128.UAA27812@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs 
In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Jun 1996 17:34:19 PDT."
             <m2n32nf3hw.fsf@deanna.miranova.com> 
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 20:28:12 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

Nope.  No way I'm adding that.  I'll reconsider if you change it to
M-x praise-be-unto-xemacs



			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 20:29:24 1996
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Message-Id: <199606020130.SAA01230@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
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 [WJopW_J.WY;
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs
In-Reply-To: <m2n32nf3hw.fsf@deanna.miranova.com>
References: <31AC86EA.5F11@nrs.dowjones.com>
	<199605311842.SAA21873@konishki.bigbook.com>
	<PAAascr08196.199605311927@crystal.WonderWorks.COM>
	<199606011957.MAA00666@monolith.spry.com>
	<m2ybm7fb9d.fsf_-_@deanna.miranova.com>
	<199606012210.SAA01862@pez.carroll.com>
	<m2n32nf3hw.fsf@deanna.miranova.com>

Steven L. Baur writes:
> >>>>> "Peter" == Peter Pezaris <pez@dwwc.com> writes:
> 
> Peter> The function would have to, of course, behave in some entertaining
> Peter> manner when it is invoked by the standard
> 
> Peter> C-u 1 0 0 0 M-x praise-be-unto-emacs RET
> 
> O.K.  How about this?
> 
> (defvar emacs-praise-sound-file
>   "/a/u/Linux/sounds/im_so_happy.au"
>   "The name of an audio file containing something to play
> when praising Emacs")
> 
> (defvar emacs-praise-message
>   "All Hail Emacs!\n"
>   "What to praise Emacs with")
> 
> (defun praise-be-unto-emacs (&optional arg)
>   "All Hail Emacs!"
>   (interactive "_p")
>   (save-window-excursion
>     (let ((count (if (null arg)
> 		     0
> 		   arg)))
>       (with-output-to-temp-buffer "*Praise*"
> 	(while (> count 0)
> 	  (progn
> 	    (princ emacs-praise-message)
> 	    (setq count (- count 1))))))
>     (if (and (featurep 'native-sound)

  Should change this to (device-sound-enabled-p) so that it will work for
NAS and native sound as well.

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 20:53:48 1996
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 18:54:32 -0700
Message-Id: <199606020154.SAA01296@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com>
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 [WJopW_J.WY;
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs 
In-Reply-To: <199606020128.UAA27812@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <m2n32nf3hw.fsf@deanna.miranova.com>
	<199606020128.UAA27812@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>

Chuck Thompson writes:
> Nope.  No way I'm adding that.  I'll reconsider if you change it to
> M-x praise-be-unto-xemacs

  Sounds good to me.  Is this in time for b22?

-bp

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 21:04:37 1996
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To: wmperry@spry.com
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Jun 1996 18:54:32 PDT."
             <199606020154.SAA01296@monolith.spry.com> 
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 21:04:35 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    William> Sounds good to me.  Is this in time for b22?

Yep.  I'll put an obsolete entry in for praise-be-to-emacs :-)



			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun  1 21:51:31 1996
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Subject: Re: M-x praise-be-to-emacs
References: <199606020128.UAA27812@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
X-Url: http://www.miranova.com/%7Esteve/
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From: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of 01 Jun 1996 18:28:12 -0700
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This version uses a random face for each separate line printed, therefore
``C-u 25 M-x praise-be-unto-xemacs'' really does have a purpose.

;;; praise-xemacs.el -- All Hail XEmacs!
;;;; Copyright (C) 1996 Miranova Systems, Inc.

;; Author: Steve L Baur <steve@miranova.com>

;; This file is part of XEmacs.

;; XEmacs is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
;; the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option)
;; any later version.

;; XEmacs is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
;; but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
;; MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
;; GNU General Public License for more details.

;; You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
;; along with XEmacs; see the file COPYING.  If not, write to
;; the Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.

;;; Synched up with: Not In FSF.

;;; Code:

(defvar xemacs-praise-sound-file
  (concat data-directory "im_so_happy.au")
  "The name of an audio file containing something to play
when praising XEmacs")

(defvar xemacs-praise-message
  "All Hail XEmacs!\n"
  "What to praise XEmacs with")

;;;###autoload
(defun praise-be-unto-xemacs (&optional arg)
  "All Hail XEmacs!"
  (interactive "_p")
  (save-window-excursion
    (let ((count (if (null arg)
		     0
		   arg))
	  (max-faces (length (face-list))))
      (with-output-to-temp-buffer "*Praise*"
	(set-buffer "*Praise*")
	(while (> count 0)
	  (progn
	    (insert-face xemacs-praise-message
			 (get-face (nth (random max-faces) (face-list))))
	    (setq count (- count 1))))))
    (if (and (device-sound-enabled-p)
	     (file-exists-p xemacs-praise-sound-file))
	(progn
	  (sit-for 0)
	  (play-sound-file xemacs-praise-sound-file))
      (sit-for 10))))

;;; praise-xemacs.el ends here.

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Illustrating the dangers of working too many hours without a day off,
do not try this at home!

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun  4 14:27:55 1996
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From: <dkeller@VNET.IBM.COM> (Doug Keller)
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: lignux

Is XEmacs going to rename the linux config stuff to lignux like RMS
did?  I personally think lignux is very silly.

doug

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun  4 14:33:53 1996
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To: dkeller@VNET.IBM.COM (Doug Keller)
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: lignux 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:27:29 EDT."
             <9606041927.AA29483@spacedog.fishkill.ibm.com> 
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 14:33:43 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    Doug> Is XEmacs going to rename the linux config stuff to lignux
    Doug> like RMS did?  I personally think lignux is very silly.

No.


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun  4 15:41:30 1996
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Subject: Re: lignux
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From: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of 04 Jun 1996 12:33:43 -0700
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>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu> writes:

Doug> Is XEmacs going to rename the linux config stuff to lignux
Doug> like RMS did?  I personally think lignux is very silly.

Chuck> No.

I've added this question & answer to the XEmacs FAQ.
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun  6 18:53:41 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: XEmacs 19.14b22 fails as a login shell (GNU Emacs 19.31 works)
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Initialization error: Wrong type argument: stringp, nil

exec-directory is nil
data-directory is nil
doc-directory is nil
load-path is nil

  backtrace(external-debugging-output t)
  # bind (string error debug-on-error stream debugger-args)
  early-error-handler(error (wrong-type-argument stringp nil))
  # (catch debugger ...)
  # (unwind-protect ...)
  # bind (stack-trace-on-signal debug-on-signal stack-trace-on-error debug-on-error)
  string-match("\\`/tmp_mnt/" nil)
  # bind (tail hack-homedir filename)
  abbreviate-file-name(nil)
  set-default-load-path()
  # bind (debugger debug-on-error command-line-args-left)
  command-line()
  # (unwind-protect ...)
  normal-top-level()
  # (condition-case ... . error)
  # (catch top-level ...)


GNU Emacs 19.31 works, so I assume this is a bug in XEmacs :-).

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jun  7 10:00:08 1996
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Subject: Re: XEmacs 19.14b22 fails as a login shell (GNU Emacs 19.31 works)
To: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 09:51:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Lipe <robertl@arnet.com>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
In-Reply-To: <m2loi08p7v.fsf@deanna.miranova.com> from "Steven L Baur" at Jun 6, 96 04:52:52 pm
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This looks like the same thing I found in OSR5 earlier in the
week.

At least in my case, it's  happening becuase getenv("$PATH") is
returning a null pointer.   This is because my environ is hosed
when built dynamically.

Just for yuks, I'd try two things:
	1: Exec XEmacs with a full path (i.e. /usr/local/bin/xemacs)
	2: set PATH before calling XEmacs.




Steven L Baur writes:
> 
> Initialization error: Wrong type argument: stringp, nil
> 
> exec-directory is nil
> data-directory is nil
> doc-directory is nil
> load-path is nil
> 
>   backtrace(external-debugging-output t)
>   # bind (string error debug-on-error stream debugger-args)
>   early-error-handler(error (wrong-type-argument stringp nil))
>   # (catch debugger ...)
>   # (unwind-protect ...)
>   # bind (stack-trace-on-signal debug-on-signal stack-trace-on-error debug-on-error)
>   string-match("\\`/tmp_mnt/" nil)
>   # bind (tail hack-homedir filename)
>   abbreviate-file-name(nil)
>   set-default-load-path()
>   # bind (debugger debug-on-error command-line-args-left)
>   command-line()
>   # (unwind-protect ...)
>   normal-top-level()
>   # (condition-case ... . error)
>   # (catch top-level ...)
> 
> 
> GNU Emacs 19.31 works, so I assume this is a bug in XEmacs :-).
> 
> -- 
> steve@miranova.com baur
> Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
> Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
> except you in November.

-- 
Robert Lipe   Sr. Software Engr    Digi International  robertl@dgii.com

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 13 10:29:52 1996
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:30:35 -0700
Message-Id: <199606131530.IAA02355@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
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 [WJopW_J.WY;
Subject: Toolbar icon specifications...
In-Reply-To: <199606131459.JAA00657@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>
References: <199606130751.IAA03953@wrath.parallax.co.uk>
	<199606131459.JAA00657@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>

Joseph J. Nuspl, Jr. writes:
>
>>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Piper <andyp@parallax.co.uk> writes:
>
>    Andy> Colour would be nice as well ...
>
>Try to keep the number of colors to a reasonable number.
>
>(b&w, greyscale, colour) X (captioned, non-captioned) ... hmm, that's a
>lot of specifiers.  Maybe its time we looked at using multi-image GIFs
>as the icon format instead of having lots and lots of different little
>files.

  This would be really cool.  What I would like to see is something similar
to the MSVC / MS-Windoze style of specifying a toolbar.  You give it a big
bitmap and tell it how many toolbar buttons are in there.  The underlying
toolbar widget takes care of chopping that up into 'n' pieces for the
toolbar buttons.  Might even be nice for the toolbar code to handle the
drawing of the captions itself, via a new :caption chunk of a toolbar
spec, and a new face with a tiny font (perhaps
-*-fixed-medium-r-*-*-*-50-*-*-*-*-*-* by default)

  Then we could get rid of the umpteen-million different xpm/xbm
combinations floating around, and just have:

w3-toolbar.gif
w3-toolbar.xpm
w3-toolbar.xbm

  So who wants to code that up? :)

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 13 11:33:47 1996
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Message-Id: <199606131633.LAA00819@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Toolbar icon specifications... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:30:35 MST."
             <199606131530.IAA02355@monolith.spry.com> 
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:33:22 -0500
From: "Joseph J. Nuspl Jr." <nuspl@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>


>>>>> "Bill" == William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com> writes:

    Bill> Might even be nice for the toolbar code to handle the
    Bill> drawing of the captions itself, via a new :caption chunk of
    Bill> a toolbar spec, and a new face with a tiny font (perhaps
    Bill> -*-fixed-medium-r-*-*-*-50-*-*-*-*-*-* by default)

Yes... The :caption would lend itself to internationalization a lot
better than the current scheme.

++------------------------------------------------------------------++
|| Joseph J. Nuspl Jr. :: Usenet :: X.500 :: Anon ftp :: OED :: PDN ||
|| "I'm a people person", the Cannibal from the 26-May-1996 Dilbert ||
++------------------------------------------------------------------++

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 13 23:12:39 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: `call-process-region'
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
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If I eval the following:

(call-process-region (point-min) (point-max) "cat" t '(t nil))

I get:

Signalling: (wrong-type-argument stringp nil)
  call-process-internal("cat" "/tmp/emacsa07187" (t nil) nil)
  apply(call-process-internal "cat" "/tmp/emacsa07187" (t nil) nil nil)
  call-process("cat" "/tmp/emacsa07187" (t nil) nil)
  apply(call-process "cat" "/tmp/emacsa07187" (t nil) nil nil)
  call-process-region(1 64 "cat" t (t nil))
  eval((call-process-region (point-min) (point-max) "cat" t (quote (t nil))))
  eval-interactive((call-process-region (point-min) (point-max) "cat" t (quote (t nil))))
  eval-last-sexp(nil)
  call-interactively(eval-last-sexp)

(XEmacs 19.14b24.)

I may be misreading the section below -- BUFFER can also have the
form (REAL-BUFFER STDERR-FILE), STDERR-FILE may be nil (discard
standard error output).  Hm.  I must be getting tired.

call-process-region: (start end program &optional deletep buffer displayp &rest args)
  -- a compiled Lisp function.
Send text from START to END to a synchronous process running PROGRAM.
Delete the text if fourth arg DELETEP is non-nil.

Insert output in BUFFER before point; t means current buffer;
 nil for BUFFER means discard it; 0 means discard and don't wait.
BUFFER can also have the form (REAL-BUFFER STDERR-FILE); in that case,
REAL-BUFFER says what to do with standard output, as above,
while STDERR-FILE says what to do with standard error in the child.
STDERR-FILE may be nil (discard standard error output),
t (mix it with ordinary output), or a file name string.

Sixth arg DISPLAYP non-nil means redisplay buffer as output is inserted.
Remaining args are passed to PROGRAM at startup as command args.

If BUFFER is 0, returns immediately with value nil.
Otherwise waits for PROGRAM to terminate
and returns a numeric exit status or a signal description string.
If you quit, the process is first killed with SIGINT, then with SIGKILL if
you quit again before the process exits.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jun 14 00:11:05 1996
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>>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

Lars> If I eval the following:
Lars> (call-process-region (point-min) (point-max) "cat" t '(t nil))

Lars> I get:

Lars> Signalling: (wrong-type-argument stringp nil)

I see the same thing.  

While testing that out I found another bug:

Get a *Help* buffer, and hit C-x C-q in it.

Signalling: (error "Lisp nesting exceeds `max-lisp-eval-depth'")
  view-quit(t)
  #<compiled-function (from "view-less.elc") nil "...(13)" [nil view-exit-position view-quit t call-interactively key-binding this-command-keys] 3 "Exit view mode and execute the global binding of the key that invoked this\ncommand.  Normally, this will toggle the state of `buffer-read-only', perhaps\ninvoking some version-control mechanism." nil>()
  call-interactively(view-quit-toggle-ro)
  #<compiled-function (from "view-less.elc") nil "...(13)" [nil view-exit-position view-quit t call-interactively key-binding this-command-keys] 3 "Exit view mode and execute the global binding of the key that invoked this\ncommand.  Normally, this will toggle the state of `buffer-read-only', perhaps\ninvoking some version-control mechanism." nil>()
  call-interactively(view-quit-toggle-ro)
  #<compiled-function (from "view-less.elc") nil "...(13)" [nil view-exit-position view-quit t call-interactively key-binding this-command-keys] 3 "Exit view mode and execute the global binding of the key that invoked this\ncommand.  Normally, this will toggle the state of `buffer-read-only', perhaps\ninvoking some version-control mechanism." nil>()
  call-interactively(view-quit-toggle-ro)
...

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sun Jun 16 17:20:50 1996
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Message-Id: <199606162220.RAA25492@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
cc: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: `call-process-region' 
In-reply-to: Your message of "14 Jun 1996 06:12:35 +0200."
             <w8sivcvnhvw.fsf@eistla.ifi.uio.no> 
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:20:46 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    Lars> If I eval the following:
    Lars> (call-process-region (point-min) (point-max) "cat" t '(t nil))

Fixed in beta25.  Note that this bug also exists in 19.31.  I have
sent the necessary patch to RMS.


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 12:22:37 1996
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Message-Id: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: what to do with the included faq?
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:22:26 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>

We currently include a copy of the faq in info format.  Now that the
base of the faq is no longer texinfo it is extremely difficult to
update that format.

I see two choices.  You get to vote.

1)  Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to view it from
    the web page.
2)  Include the latest HTML version at the time of release for viewing
    locally via w3.


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 12:51:06 1996
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:50:41 -0700
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From: Damon Lipparelli <lipp@primuscorp.com>
To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: what to do with the included faq?
In-Reply-To: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: Damon Lipparelli <lipp@primuscorp.com>
Organization: Primus Communications Corporation
X-Mailer: VM 5.95 (beta) [ XEmacs 19.14 (beta24) ]

>>>>> Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:

    > We currently include a copy of the faq in info format.  Now that the
    > base of the faq is no longer texinfo it is extremely difficult to
    > update that format.

    > I see two choices.  You get to vote.

    > 1) Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to view it from
    > the web page.

    > 2) Include the latest HTML version at the time of release for viewing
    > locally via w3. 

This one gets my vote.  But, use "browse-url" instead of W3 directly.

-lipp

ps: Congrats Bulls fans; we'll see you this time next year, though.

---

..  I wonder if I ought to tell them about my PREVIOUS LIFE
 as a COMPLETE STRANGER?

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 13:06:53 1996
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Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq?
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
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>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:

Chuck> We currently include a copy of the faq in info format.  Now that the
Chuck> base of the faq is no longer texinfo it is extremely difficult to
Chuck> update that format.

Chuck> I see two choices.  You get to vote.

Chuck> 1)  Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to view it from
Chuck>     the web page.
Chuck> 2)  Include the latest HTML version at the time of release for viewing
Chuck>     locally via w3.

Since digest versions of the FAQ are free, I'd add:

3)  Provide digest groups available for browsing with Gnus or VM.

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 13:38:06 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu> 
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq? 
In-reply-to: (Your message of Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:22:26 CDT.)
             <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu> 
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:05:52 -0400
Message-ID: <15189.835034752@rtp.ericsson.se>
From: Raymond Toy <toy@rtp.ericsson.se>

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:


    Chuck> I see two choices.  You get to vote.

    Chuck> 1)  Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to view it from
    Chuck>     the web page.
    Chuck> 2)  Include the latest HTML version at the time of release for viewing
    Chuck>     locally via w3.

2 definitely.  Way too much work to get the faq on the web page if you
haven't already set up w3.  

Ray

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 14:02:16 1996
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Message-Id: <199606171902.OAA27829@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: turner@lanl.gov
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:59:02 MDT."
             <199606171859.MAA01994@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv> 
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:02:10 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    John> What exactly is the process for generating info from the
    John> current format?  Could it not be automated?

The current base format is HTML.  It could probably be automated if
someone put in enough effort, but I don't think there is any way to do
so in time for the 19.14 release.



			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 13:59:45 1996
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:59:02 -0600
Message-Id: <199606171859.MAA01994@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
From: John Turner <turner@xdiv.lanl.gov>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq?
In-Reply-To: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: turner@lanl.gov

Chuck Thompson writes:
 > We currently include a copy of the faq in info format.  Now that the
 > base of the faq is no longer texinfo it is extremely difficult to
 > update that format.
 > 
 > I see two choices.  You get to vote.
 > 
 > 1)  Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to view it from
 >     the web page.
 > 2)  Include the latest HTML version at the time of release for viewing
 >     locally via w3.

Of those choices, 2.

I really like having stuff in info as well, but I guess I'm in the
minority here.

What exactly is the process for generating info from the current
format?  Could it not be automated?

+-----------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
|John A. Turner         |"Music is the cup which holds the wine of silence;|
|Los Alamos Natl. Lab.  |  sound is that cup, but empty;                   |
|e-mail: turner@lanl.gov|    noise is that cup, but broken."               |
|                       |                        - Robert Fripp            |
+-----------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 14:38:24 1996
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To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq?
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
From: David Worenklein <dcw@gcm.com>
Date: 17 Jun 1996 15:37:51 -0400
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:22:26 -0500
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X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.9/XEmacs 19.13

I might not have access to the 'Web, but I still need to see the FAQ...

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 15:02:31 1996
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 96 16:02:10 -0400
From: Bill Dubuque <wgd@martigny.ai.mit.edu>
To: cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu
Cc: turner@lanl.gov, xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:02:10 -0500 <199606171902.OAA27829@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: what to do with the included faq? 

  Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:02:10 -0500
  From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

      John> What exactly is the process for generating info from the
      John> current format?  Could it not be automated?

  The current base format is HTML.  It could probably be automated if
  someone put in enough effort, but I don't think there is any way to do
  so in time for the 19.14 release.

IMHO, it is important that the FAQ be included in INFO format.
It is a royal pain to have to shift between different hypertext 
browsers and such would be necessary if one wanted to jump from the
XEmacs INFO docs to the FAQ if the latter were not in INFO format.

Does the FAQ currently have cross-references to XEmacs INFO nodes?
If not, it certainly should. Almost everything in the FAQ belongs
in the docs, possibly in more detail. The FAQ might be viewed as
an outline of the most-commonly-used part of the docs. In fact
one might imagine auto-generating the FAQ entries based on the
number of reference counts to INFO nodes (if browsers could
globally track such).


We need to have at least one common-denominator hypertext
standard for the entire documentation base; otherwise imagine the
bogosity that might result if all documentation chapters were
written in the authors favorite hypertext language and each
chapter required a different browser.

-Bill

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 17 21:41:49 1996
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From: "William M. Perry" <wmperry@cs.indiana.edu>
Message-Id: <199606180241.VAA27734@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
X-Face: O~Rn;(l][/-o1sALg4A@xpE:9-"'IR[%;,,!m7</SYF`{vYQ(&RI1&EiH[FvT;J}@f!4kfz
 x_!Y#=y{Uuj9GvUi=cPuajQ(Z42R[wE@{G,sn$qGr5g/wnb*"*ktI+,CD}1Z'wxrM2ag-r0p5I6\nA
 [WJopW_J.WY;
Cc: turner@lanl.gov, xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq? 
In-Reply-To: <199606171902.OAA27829@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199606171859.MAA01994@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
	<199606171902.OAA27829@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>

Chuck Thompson writes:
 >     John> What exactly is the process for generating info from the
 >     John> current format?  Could it not be automated?
 > 
 > The current base format is HTML.  It could probably be automated if
 > someone put in enough effort, but I don't think there is any way to do
 > so in time for the 19.14 release.

  Check out w3-latex.el - it converts parsed HTML into latex pretty nicely
- the same could be done for texinfo.  The next version of the drawing code
will have support for latex, texinfo, postscript (hopefully - volunteers),
and emacs buffers.

  Definitely not  a 19.14 thing though. :)

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun 18 03:39:21 1996
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From: Heiko Muenkel <muenkel@daedalus.tnt.uni-hannover.de>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq?
In-Reply-To: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199606171722.MAA12833@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
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>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:

    Chuck> We currently include a copy of the faq in info format.  Now
    Chuck> that the base of the faq is no longer texinfo it is
    Chuck> extremely difficult to update that format.

    Chuck> I see two choices.  You get to vote.

    Chuck> 1) Remove the local copy of the faq and force people to
    Chuck> view it from the web page.  2) Include the latest HTML
    Chuck> version at the time of release for viewing locally via w3.


    Chuck> 			-Chuck

If these two are the only choices, then I vote for number 2, because
of the slow internet connections in these days :-(

But I agree with Bill Dubuque, that it would be better to have the FAQ
in the info format with links to other info documentation. Isn't it
possible to write the FAQ in the texinfo format? There are very good
texinfo2html converter (they are better than the info2html converter).

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun 18 08:01:06 1996
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 18 Jun 1996 15:00:54 +0200
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Lines: 16
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.20/XEmacs 19.14

I have been unable to come up with a test case that reliably exercises
this strange bug.  Here's how it's experienced when using Gnus:

Find a long article.  (It has to be more than two screens long.)  `t'
to unhide the hidden headers.  If you now `C-x b' over to the article
buffer and `C-v' & `M-v', you should see some odd action.  It's as if
the previously invisible headers are still being considered
invisible.  Doing anything at all of any substance, like 
`M-: (point) RET' will clear things up.  (It doesn't matter what one
evals.) 

(XEmacs 19.14b24.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun 18 08:43:46 1996
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 18 Jun 1996 15:43:35 +0200
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X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.20/XEmacs 19.14

It would produce results like this:

Cc: Kerstin_Glodzinski@AC.Cybercity.de (Kerstin Glodzinski),
	 	hansmuff@fireball.tng.oche.de (Lutz Heinrichs),
	 	dirk@vaughn.tng.oche.de (Dirk Schreiber),
	 	stephan@raistlin.tng.oche.de (Stephan Kreutzer),
	 (Carsten Leonhardt), 	romski@polen.tng.oche.de (Roman Cibis)

(Note the bogus "(Carsten Leonhardt)" address.)

I took a peek at the version in Emacs 19.31, and it gave better
results, as far as I can see.  Here's a patch that'll turn the XEmacs
19.14b24 version of the function into the Emacs 19.31 version:

*** mail-utils.el.~1~	Sun Jan 21 23:59:50 1996
--- mail-utils.el	Tue Jun 18 15:39:24 1996
***************
*** 151,157 ****
      (while (setq pos (string-match match userids))
        (if (> pos 0) (setq pos (match-beginning 2)))
        (setq epos
! 	    (if (string-match "[ \t\n,]+" userids (match-end 0))
  		(match-end 0)
  	      (length userids)))
        (setq userids
--- 151,158 ----
      (while (setq pos (string-match match userids))
        (if (> pos 0) (setq pos (match-beginning 2)))
        (setq epos
! 	    ;; Delete thru the next comma, plus whitespace after.
! 	    (if (string-match ",[ \t\n]+" userids (match-end 0))
  		(match-end 0)
  	      (length userids)))
        (setq userids

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun 18 09:32:40 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: what to do with the included faq? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:41:46 EST."
             <199606180241.VAA27734@moose.cs.indiana.edu> 
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From: "Joseph J. Nuspl Jr." <nuspl@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>


>>>>> "Bill" == William M Perry <wmperry@cs.indiana.edu> writes:

    Bill> The next version of the drawing code will have support for
    Bill> latex, texinfo, postscript (hopefully - volunteers), and
    Bill> emacs buffers.

In my spare time I'm working on a re-write of ps-print to support
in-line images, multiple fonts, and all that jazz.

-- 
++------------------------------------------------------------------++
|| Joseph J. Nuspl Jr. :: Usenet :: X.500 :: Anon ftp :: OED :: PDN ||
|| "I'm a people person", the Cannibal from the 26-May-1996 Dilbert ||
++------------------------------------------------------------------++

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Wed Jun 19 06:11:01 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: XEmacs 19.14b24:  Crash on exiting from debug
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 19 Jun 1996 13:10:54 +0200
Message-ID: <w8safy09hhd.fsf@eistla.ifi.uio.no>
Lines: 206
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.20/XEmacs 19.14

(I haven't upgraded to b25 yet, so this might be outdated.)

# ./configure  sparc-sun-sunos4.1.3 --run-in-place --with-xpm --with-xface --with-sound=native --cflags=-g -O3 --with-png=no --with-dialogs=athena --with-xmu=yes

Here's how I got this backtrace:

I had `debug-on-error' set to something non-nil.  I then killed the
buffer I was in when the error occured.  Finally, I pressed "q" in the
*Backtrace* buffer, and XEmacs died.  

Included below are the lisp & C backtraces.

Lisp backtrace follows:

  throw(top-level nil)
  #<compiled-function (from "cmdloop.elc") nil "...(5)" [throw top-level nil] 3 468494 nil>()
  call-interactively(top-level)
  recursive-edit()
  byte-code("  ! p +eb `!y`| @>c@=\"!cy@=cA@p\"c!cy@=cA@p\"c@=c@=Ap\"c!#$! +" [pop-to-buffer debugger-buffer erase-buffer t 50 print-length print-escape-newlines standard-output backtrace debugger-mode re-search-forward "\n[* ] debug(" 1 debugger-reenable debugger-args (lambda debug) "Entering:\n" debug backtrace-debug 3 delete-char 42 0 exit "Return value: " debugger-value prin1 10 32 error "Signalling: " "Beginning evaluation of function call form:\n" nil message "" buffer-read-only inhibit-trace recursive-edit] 3)
  debug(error (buffer-read-only #<killed buffer>))
  replace-match(" " t t)
  nnheader-fold-continuation-lines()
  # bind (server group id)
  nntp-request-head("<4q6l92$baj@due.unit.no>" "no.general" "nntp.ifi.uio.no")
  # bind (head method group article)
  gnus-request-head("<4q6l92$baj@due.unit.no>" "no.general")
  # bind (group gnus-override-method where header id)
  gnus-read-header("<4q6l92$baj@due.unit.no>")
  # bind (use-old-header old-header id)
  gnus-summary-insert-subject("<4q6l92$baj@due.unit.no>")
  # bind (gnus-override-method number sparse header message-id)
  gnus-summary-refer-article("<4q6l92$baj@due.unit.no>")
  # bind (ref header n)
  gnus-summary-refer-parent-article(1)
  # bind (command-debug-status)
  call-interactively(gnus-summary-refer-parent-article)
  # (condition-case ... . error)
  # (catch top-level ...)


~ 510>gdb xemacs core
GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it
 under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details.
GDB 4.13 (sparc-sun-sunos4.1.3_U1), 
Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc...
Core was generated by `xemacs'.
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
#0  0x28d3a8 in kill ()
(gdb) where
#0  0x28d3a8 in kill ()
#1  0x4e574 in fatal_error_signal (sig=320528) at emacs.c:193
#2  <signal handler called>
#3  0xd0e64 in multiple_change_finish_up (buffer=279369216) at insdel.c:1130
#4  0x5adb8 in unbind_to (count=0, value=272343044) at eval.c:4796
#5  0x52c14 in Fthrow (tag=272420260, val=272343044) at eval.c:1410
#6  0x579b8 in primitive_funcall (fn=0x52b98 <Fthrow>, nargs=2, 
    args=0xefffacfc) at eval.c:3486
#7  0x57bc0 in funcall_subr (subr=0x2bc528, args=0xefffacfc) at eval.c:3526
#8  0x56c50 in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=272431028, nargs=2, 
    args=0xefffacf8) at eval.c:3207
#9  0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=3, args=0xefffacf8) at eval.c:3253
#10 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=808282208, vector=1076717684, maxdepth=4)
    at bytecode.c:417
#11 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=271411332, nargs=0, arg_vector=0xefffafe0)
    at eval.c:3636
#12 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=271411332, nargs=0, 
    args=0xefffafdc) at eval.c:3223
#13 0x58cdc in apply1 (fn=271411332, arg=272343044) at eval.c:3253
#14 0x20404 in Fcall_interactively (function=272420260, record_flag=272343044, 
    keys=272343044) at callint.c:389
#15 0x55378 in Fcommand_execute (cmd=272420260, record=272343044, 
    keys=272343044) at eval.c:2628
#16 0x70e04 in execute_command_event (command_builder=0x3fbd80, 
    event=279611744) at event-stream.c:3474
#17 0x72214 in Fdispatch_event (event=279611744) at event-stream.c:3759
#18 0x27eb0 in Fcommand_loop_1 () at cmdloop.c:542
#19 0x27af8 in command_loop_1 (dummy=272343044) at cmdloop.c:462
#20 0x52fa8 in condition_case_1 (handlers=3854336, 
    bfun=0x27a54 <command_loop_1>, barg=272343044, hfun=0x2809c <cmd_error>, 
    harg=272343044) at eval.c:1672
#21 0x28198 in command_loop_2 (dummy=272343044) at cmdloop.c:224
#22 0x52b54 in internal_catch (tag=272430524, func=0x28168 <command_loop_2>, 
    arg=272343044, threw=0x0) at eval.c:1347
#23 0x27a20 in Frecursive_edit () at cmdloop.c:336
#24 0x57994 in primitive_funcall (fn=0x27554 <Frecursive_edit>, nargs=0, 
    args=0xefffbbdc) at eval.c:3482
#25 0x57bc0 in funcall_subr (subr=0x2ba6d8, args=0xefffbbdc) at eval.c:3526
#26 0x56c50 in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=272420284, nargs=0, 
    args=0xefffbbd8) at eval.c:3207
#27 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=1, args=0xefffbbd8) at eval.c:3253
#28 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=817023376, vector=1084803840, maxdepth=185)
    at bytecode.c:417
#29 0x579d0 in primitive_funcall (fn=0x1d5d0 <Fbyte_code>, nargs=3, 
    args=0xefffbe70) at eval.c:3488
#30 0x57bc0 in funcall_subr (subr=0x2ba3d0, args=0xefffbe70) at eval.c:3526
#31 0x56568 in Feval (form=543907780) at eval.c:3064
#32 0x518d0 in Fprogn (args=543961756) at eval.c:746
#33 0x1e0dc in Fbyte_code (bytestr=817026396, vector=1084801024, maxdepth=145)
    at bytecode.c:555
#34 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=279050628, nargs=2, arg_vector=0xefffc594)
    at eval.c:3636
#35 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=272460908, nargs=2, 
    args=0xefffc590) at eval.c:3223
#36 0x5791c in Fapply (nargs=4, args=0xefffc678) at eval.c:3253
#37 0x58cbc in apply1 (fn=272460908, arg=543930140) at eval.c:3968
#38 0x5bfd4 in call_debugger_259 (arg=543930140) at eval.c:337
#39 0x52b54 in internal_catch (tag=272430428, 
    func=0x5bfc0 <call_debugger_259>, arg=543930140, threw=0xefffc82c)
    at eval.c:1347
#40 0x5107c in call_debugger (arg=543930140) at eval.c:391
#41 0x513b4 in signal_call_debugger (conditions=539757540, sig=272343596, 
    data=543930316, active_handlers=26, signal_vars_only=0, 
    stack_trace_displayed=0xefffc948, debugger_entered=0xefffc944)
    at eval.c:541
#42 0x537a8 in signal_1 (sig=272343596, data=543930316) at eval.c:1972
#43 0x53b14 in Fsignal (error_symbol=272343596, data=543930316) at eval.c:2071
#44 0xd350c in barf_if_buffer_read_only (buf=0xa6d600, from=111, to=111)
    at insdel.c:1914
#45 0xd1acc in buffer_insert_string_1 (buf=0xa6d600, pos=111, nonreloc=0x0, 
    reloc=811006172, offset=0, length=1, flags=0) at insdel.c:1369
#46 0xd2350 in buffer_insert_lisp_string_1 (buf=0xa6d600, pos=-1, 
    str=811006172, flags=0) at insdel.c:1606
#47 0x48cd4 in buffer_insert1 (buf=0xa6d600, arg=811006172) at editfns.c:1321
#48 0x48d1c in Finsert (nargs=4, args=0xefffcd4c) at editfns.c:1353
#49 0x13ab60 in Freplace_match (newtext=811006172, fixedcase=272343068, 
    literal=272343068, string=272343044, strbuffer=25) at search.c:2081
#50 0x57a0c in primitive_funcall (fn=0x139a9c <Freplace_match>, nargs=5, 
    args=0xefffce78) at eval.c:3492
#51 0x57bc0 in funcall_subr (subr=0x35ab18, args=0xefffce78) at eval.c:3526
#52 0x56c3c in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=272452308, nargs=3, 
    args=0xefffd04c) at eval.c:3204
#53 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=4, args=0xefffd040) at eval.c:3253
#54 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=811006100, vector=1079326848, maxdepth=15)
    at bytecode.c:417
#55 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=274117924, nargs=0, arg_vector=0xefffd448)
    at eval.c:3636
#56 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=274133068, nargs=0, 
    args=0xefffd444) at eval.c:3223
#57 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=1, args=0xefffd444) at eval.c:3253
#58 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=810071340, vector=1081632832, maxdepth=40)
    at bytecode.c:417
#59 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=276513636, nargs=3, arg_vector=0xefffd8fc)
    at eval.c:3636
#60 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=276496188, nargs=3, 
    args=0xefffd8f8) at eval.c:3223
#61 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=4, args=0xefffd8f8) at eval.c:3253
#62 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=812995260, vector=1081358336, maxdepth=47)
    at bytecode.c:417
#63 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=276082564, nargs=2, arg_vector=0xefffdfc4)
    at eval.c:3636
#64 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=275997228, nargs=2, 
    args=0xefffdfc0) at eval.c:3223
#65 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=3, args=0xefffdfc0) at eval.c:3253
#66 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=811540308, vector=1081356288, maxdepth=66)
    at bytecode.c:417
#67 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=275938628, nargs=1, arg_vector=0xefffe59c)
    at eval.c:3636
#68 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=275794260, nargs=1, 
    args=0xefffe598) at eval.c:3223
#69 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=2, args=0xefffe598) at eval.c:3253
#70 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=811331364, vector=1081067136, maxdepth=12)
    at bytecode.c:417
#71 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=275792452, nargs=1, arg_vector=0xefffeafc)
    at eval.c:3636
#72 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=275741060, nargs=1, 
    args=0xefffeaf8) at eval.c:3223
#73 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=2, args=0xefffeaf8) at eval.c:3253
#74 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=811173952, vector=1081182720, maxdepth=105)
    at bytecode.c:417
#75 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=275887332, nargs=1, arg_vector=0xeffff0ac)
    at eval.c:3636
#76 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=274523388, nargs=1, 
    args=0xeffff0a8) at eval.c:3223
#77 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=2, args=0xeffff0a8) at eval.c:3253
#78 0x1dcb4 in Fbyte_code (bytestr=811185116, vector=1081182976, maxdepth=96)
    at bytecode.c:417
#79 0x58320 in funcall_lambda (fun=275887268, nargs=1, arg_vector=0xeffff3a4)
    at eval.c:3636
#80 0x56ddc in funcall_recording_as (recorded_as=274523364, nargs=1, 
    args=0xeffff3a0) at eval.c:3223
#81 0x56e64 in Ffuncall (nargs=2, args=0xeffff3a0) at eval.c:3253
#82 0x21ce8 in Fcall_interactively (function=274523364, record_flag=272343044, 
    keys=272343044) at callint.c:896
#83 0x55378 in Fcommand_execute (cmd=274523364, record=272343044, 
    keys=272343044) at eval.c:2628
#84 0x70e04 in execute_command_event (command_builder=0x3fbd80, 
    event=273917956) at event-stream.c:3474
#85 0x72214 in Fdispatch_event (event=273917956) at event-stream.c:3759
#86 0x27eb0 in Fcommand_loop_1 () at cmdloop.c:542
#87 0x27af8 in command_loop_1 (dummy=272343044) at cmdloop.c:462
#88 0x52fa8 in condition_case_1 (handlers=3854336, 
    bfun=0x27a54 <command_loop_1>, barg=272343044, hfun=0x2809c <cmd_error>, 
    harg=272343044) at eval.c:1672
#89 0x28198 in command_loop_2 (dummy=272343044) at cmdloop.c:224
#90 0x52b54 in internal_catch (tag=272420260, func=0x28168 <command_loop_2>, 
    arg=272343044, threw=0x0) at eval.c:1347
#91 0x27164 in initial_command_loop (load_me=164200) at cmdloop.c:273
#92 0x4f548 in main_1 (argc=1, argv=0xeffffb6c, envp=0xeffffb74)
    at emacs.c:1317
#93 0x4f9c4 in main (argc=1, argv=0xeffffb6c, envp=0xeffffb74) at emacs.c:1439
(gdb) 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Wed Jun 19 11:32:56 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Edebug's `eval-defun' is too old-fashioned
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 19 Jun 1996 18:32:32 +0200
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I was fiddling with a function, and I just couldn't understand why it
was misbehaving.  After a while I took a look at a variable used by
the function, and saw that the value was wrong.  So, I went to the
`defvar' and `C-M-x'ed it, as usual.  And went back to debugging.  

After a while I discovered that the variable was *still* wrong.

*gngng*

It seems that I had loaded edebug, and edebug redefines `eval-defun'
to something that doesn't pretend that `defvar's are `defconst's.  

Argghh!

eval-defun:
Evaluate the top-level form containing point, or after point.

This version, from Edebug, has the following differences: With a
prefix argument instrument the code for Edebug.  If `edebug-all-defs' is
non-nil, then the code is instrumented *unless* there is a prefix
argument.  If instrumenting, it prints: `Edebug: FUNCTIONNAME'.
Otherwise, it prints in the minibuffer.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jun 22 04:45:49 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Odd .gz bug
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 22 Jun 1996 11:45:45 +0200
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I am unable to reproduce this bug reliably, but it has bitten me twice
now.

When I have `debug-on-error' set to t and then `C-x i' to insert a .gz
file, XEmacs messages the "unzipping..." message, and then it returns
without inserting anything.  After that, whenever I press a key like
`M-x' or anything that runs lispish functions, it says "Entering
debugger..." and nothing else.  I can't do anything much, not even
shut down XEmacs.  I have to kill it from the shell.

(XEmacs 19.14p1.)

XEmacs 19.14 [Lucid] (sparc-sun-sunos4.1.3) of Fri Jun 21 1996 on mimir.ifi.uio.no

Configured for `sparc-sun-sunos4.1.3'.

  Where should the build process find the source code?    /local/hacks/lib/xemacs-19.14-b24
  What installation prefix should install use?            ${srcdir}
  What operating system and machine description files should XEmacs use?
        `s/sunos4-1-3.h' and `m/sparc.h'
  What compiler should XEmacs be built with?              gcc -g -O3
  Should XEmacs use the GNU version of malloc?            yes
  Should XEmacs use the relocating allocator for buffers? yes
  What window system should XEmacs use?                   x11
  Where do we find X Windows header files?                /local/X11R5/include
  Where do we find X Windows libraries?                   /local/X11R5/lib
  Compiling in support for XAUTH.
  Compiling in support for XPM.
  Compiling in support for X-Face headers.
  Compiling in support for GIF image conversion.
  Compiling in support for JPEG image conversion.
  Compiling in native sound support.
  Compiling in support for Berkeley DB.
  Compiling in support for GNU DBM.
  Using the Lucid menubar.
  Using the Lucid scrollbar.
  Using the Athena dialog boxes.
  Compiling in extra code for debugging.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sun Jun 23 18:02:16 1996
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Subject: [alt.religion.emacs] Re: Should I start using Emacs?
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--Multipart_Sun_Jun_23_16:01:28_1996-1
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William, think you can conjure up a 3-d shaded `pray' button?  :-)

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.
--Multipart_Sun_Jun_23_16:01:28_1996-1
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From: Magnus Y Alvestad <magnus@haukugle.ii.uib.no>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: Should I start using Emacs?
Date: 21 Jun 1996 09:49:42 +0200
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Message-ID: <evg27psijt.fsf@haukugle.ii.uib.no>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960605201916.9319C-100000@urn.su.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<hrn328yh0j.fsf@gielgud.lanl.gov> <evwx1b97kx.fsf@haukugle.ii.uib.no>
	<h1ag27y55iw.fsf@ballater.dai.ed.ac.uk>

[Olve Maudal]

| Oh Magnus, my friend and fellow believer, me think you are too strict.
| XEmacs is just a joyful version of the OTE and represents no threat to
| our beliefs... lets pray together...

Heed my words; tomorrow XEmacs users will be praying with a shaded
'pray' button and absolutely no lisp whatsoever.  This is not Emacs
as rms our prophet has shown it to us!

-Magnus

--Multipart_Sun_Jun_23_16:01:28_1996-1--

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 24 10:42:26 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Glyph/display-table difficulties
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 24 Jun 1996 17:41:49 +0200
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(I don't know whether this is the right place to discuss things like
this...)

On Saturday I decided I wanted to edit some XPMs, but all the drawing
programs available here 1) sucked, 2) crashed, and 3) were yucky.  So
I thought I'd whip up an XPM mode.  I got a bit carried away, so it's
now a drawing program type thingie.

Basically, you have lots of characters in a buffer.  By using the
display table, I've mapped each of the characters to a string glyph
that has the right color.  Is this totally stupid?  I could (of
course) do the whole thing in colored extents (and so on).  (Hm.
Perhaps I'll rewrite the thing.)  

But the problem I have is this:  The cursor is not visible when its
placed before one of these glyphs.  It's also impossible to put point
before a glyph with the mouse.  Are these bugs or have I done
something wrong?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 24 10:49:02 1996
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Message-Id: <199606241548.KAA16896@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
cc: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Glyph/display-table difficulties 
In-reply-to: Your message of "24 Jun 1996 17:41:49 +0200."
             <w8sivchyzsy.fsf@ylfing.ifi.uio.no> 
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:48:58 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    Lars> (I don't know whether this is the right place to discuss
    Lars> things like this...)

I'll pass on answering this since I'm trying very hard to get to an
overhaul of the beta mailing list(s) at which point I'll provide full
descriptions of how each should be used.

In the meantime, have you tried xpm-mode.el which is already in the
XEmacs distribution (in lisp/modes)?


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jun 24 11:22:47 1996
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To: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Glyph/display-table difficulties
References: <199606241548.KAA16896@charles.cs.uiuc.edu>
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 24 Jun 1996 18:21:43 +0200
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:48:58 -0500
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Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu> writes:

> In the meantime, have you tried xpm-mode.el which is already in the
> XEmacs distribution (in lisp/modes)?

Oh, I didn't know about that one.  It kinda looks like what I imagined
when I started.  However, it now looks more like a general picture
drawing thingie, so I think I'll carry on...

The display-table w/glyphs approach was a dead end, though.  *Much*
too slow, so I'll rewrite it using text properties instead, I
think... 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 27 10:51:35 1996
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:00:44 -0700
Message-Id: <199606271600.JAA00366@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com>
To: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
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 [WJopW_J.WY;
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: [alt.religion.emacs] Re: Should I start using Emacs?
In-Reply-To: <m24to2xgzb.fsf@deanna.miranova.com>
References: <m24to2xgzb.fsf@deanna.miranova.com>

Steven L. Baur writes:
>William, think you can conjure up a 3-d shaded `pray' button?  :-)

 Hmmm... maybe.  I remember some video game from my Apple //c days that had
two hands steepled together with flames licking around them - looked pretty
cool.  It wasn't for praying, but I think it would do.  Anybody seen
something like that out there on the net?

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 27 12:44:04 1996
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:44:02 -0700
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From: "Lynn D. Newton" <lnewton@ives.phx.mcd.mot.com>
To: XEmacs Beta Discussion <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: filling hanging paragraphs
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Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v03.19.01.


I probably should have put this on a news group, but I
figure I can get faster and more reliable input here
... I *need* the following functionality fairly badly:

First I should ask what the consensus is regarding the
"best" fill packages. For years I've been using a small
package (with unidentified author) I picked off the net
called sindent.el, which provides a thing called
simple-indent mode, and gives me a couple of pieces of
functionality I need. I use it all the time. I know
that there are better indenters available, but when
I've enabled them I've been in a rush and found that
they collided with what I've been using, so I gave them
up.

Somewhere around XEmacs 19.12 or so some functionality
within XEmacs caused a function I'd written myself
(called fill-hanging-paragraph) to break. Now I have
urgent need to use it to format a 600k+ text file,
including the refilling of thousands of paragraphs in
it that look like this model:

This first line starts flush left, but when
  it wraps around, every line thereafter to
  the end of the paragraph indents two
  spaces.

What I need is a function I can call on any line in a
paragraph (anything delineated by blank lines before
and after), and fill it properly.

Using part the first paragraph from the TUTORIAL as a
model, some paragraphs I encounter will initially look
like this:

Emacs commands generally
  involve the CONTROL key (sometimes labelled
  CTRL or CTL) or the META key.  On some keyboards, the META key is
  labelled ALT or EDIT or something else (for example, on Sun keyboards,
  the diamond key to the left of the spacebar is META).

i.e., with a short first line, so that filling it
should pull up some text from the next line and then
refill the rest indented two spaces. Others will look
like this:

Emacs commands generally involve the CONTROL key (sometimes labelled CTRL or CTL) or the META key.  On some keyboards, the META key is
  labelled ALT or EDIT or something else (for example, on Sun keyboards,
  the diamond key to the left of the spacebar is META).

i.e., the first line is too long and some text needs to
be chopped down to the next line and indented. The
function I wrote, depending on simple-indent mode,
*used* to do that, but as I said it's now broken
because of some change I can't identify in the way
emacs fills text. (Yeah, I'm sure someone will write
back and tell me that nothing has changed in this
regard for years. Be that as it may, it used to work,
it doesn't now. Whatever.)

Soooo ....

#1) Is there already a fill package that does what I
    want?

#2) In several attempts I've been unable to make my own
    effort to fix it work satisfactorily to cover all
    possible cases. Is this a simple enough thing to do
    that some kind soul might be willing whip together
    a few lines of code for me that does this? If so,
    I'd be eternally grateful.

Meanwhile I'll resolve to upgrade my fill package RSN.

Many thanks,

===============================================
Lynn D. Newton
Motorola Computer Group
Business: http://ives.phx.mcd.mot.com/~lnewton
Personal: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~lnewton
===============================================

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jun 27 13:23:39 1996
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To: wmperry@spry.com
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Toolbar icon specifications... 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:30:35 MST."
             <199606131530.IAA02355@monolith.spry.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.68)
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:23:17 -0500
From: "Joseph J. Nuspl Jr." <nuspl@nvwls.cc.purdue.edu>


>>>>> "Bill" == William Perry <wmperry@monolith.spry.com> writes:

    Bill> Might even be nice for the toolbar code to handle the
    Bill> drawing of the captions itself, via a new :caption chunk of
    Bill> a toolbar spec, and a new face with a tiny font (perhaps
    Bill> -*-fixed-medium-r-*-*-*-50-*-*-*-*-*-* by default)

Should there be a :face chuck instead of toolbar-caption-face?



From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  1 13:12:41 1996
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From: "Doug Keller" <dkeller@VNET.IBM.COM>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: face-differs-from-default-p

In HyperAppropos it sets the documention face foreground to firebrick,
I would like it to be the same face as my default face.

  (copy-face 'default 'documentation)

This does not work because HyperAppropos calls
face-differs-from-default-p, if nil then it sets the face to
firebrick.  How can I trick face-differs-from-default-p so it thinks
the face is different?

doug


From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  1 14:17:44 1996
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 12:16 PDT
From: stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
To: turner@lanl.gov
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Save Options
In-Reply-To: <199607011539.JAA06410@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
References: <199607011539.JAA06410@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
X-Face: V3#TB_`^vld7L-O4+Qk1%QYVRe6B2)Ia$tWrjprU|P'pM:Y{P5Io@~qxuL:&.;*?KU5.w_J
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John Turner wrote:
> 
> How difficult would it be to give a warning prior to quitting that
> Options have been modified but not saved?

Not difficult at all, another winning idea!

> Or maybe the whole idea of it being a menu should be rethought.  Maybe
> it should be a new frame (or set of frames), and to quit the frame you
> either confirm the changes (triggering a Save Options) or simply quit.

I think it belongs on a menu.

    Stig
    
   

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  1 14:29:42 1996
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:29:04 -0600
Message-Id: <199607011929.NAA06592@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
From: John Turner <turner@xdiv.lanl.gov>
To: stig@hackvan.com
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Save Options
In-Reply-To: <m0uaoSS-000HE5C@hackvan.com>
References: <199607011539.JAA06410@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
	<m0uaoSS-000HE5C@hackvan.com>
Reply-To: turner@lanl.gov

stig@hackvan.com writes:
 > John Turner wrote:
 > > 
 > > How difficult would it be to give a warning prior to quitting that
 > > Options have been modified but not saved?
 > 
 > Not difficult at all, another winning idea!
 > 
 > > Or maybe the whole idea of it being a menu should be rethought.  Maybe
 > > it should be a new frame (or set of frames), and to quit the frame you
 > > either confirm the changes (triggering a Save Options) or simply quit.
 > 
 > I think it belongs on a menu.

Oh well... 2 out of 3 and all that... :)

My problem with toggling things on a menu is that sometimes the menu
goes away so fast that I'm not really sure if the toggle really
happened or if I clicked slightly off and the menu just went away
without doing anything.  

For example, say I *want* to toggle Options -> Syntax Highlighting ->
Automatic.  If I click slightly too low, say on the dividing line
between Automatic and Fonts, the whole menu tree just goes away.  So I
end up traversing the cascade again just to see if the button has been
toggled.  Maybe if it delayed for just a sec after a click is
registered before disappearing? 

-John

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  1 15:25:16 1996
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 13:23 PDT
From: stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
To: turner@lanl.gov
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Save Options
In-Reply-To: <199607011929.NAA06592@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
References: <199607011539.JAA06410@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
	<m0uaoSS-000HE5C@hackvan.com>
	<199607011929.NAA06592@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
X-Face: V3#TB_`^vld7L-O4+Qk1%QYVRe6B2)Ia$tWrjprU|P'pM:Y{P5Io@~qxuL:&.;*?KU5.w_J
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 [3S!^H~;A&1oo&;)-"R2]5%unJ8QeoXlo7n+h(rLQS?]SCWnHvm3/v7*RXE`,/;8g6j)&/

John Turner wrote:
> 
> For example, say I *want* to toggle Options -> Syntax Highlighting ->
> Automatic.  If I click slightly too low, say on the dividing line
> between Automatic and Fonts, the whole menu tree just goes away.  So I
> end up traversing the cascade again just to see if the button has been
> toggled.  Maybe if it delayed for just a sec after a click is
> registered before disappearing? 
> 

Well, that's another matter and another good idea.  It wouldn't be too hard
to do in lwlib (I think), and so far as I know the Motif menus are still
broken anyway...  So adding a pop-down delay resource to lwlib would handle
this.

    Stig

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  1 23:28:42 1996
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From: John Turner <turner@xdiv.lanl.gov>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: face-differs-from-default-p
In-Reply-To: <9607011812.AA16974@spacedog.fishkill.ibm.com>
References: <9607011812.AA16974@spacedog.fishkill.ibm.com>
Reply-To: turner@lanl.gov

Doug Keller writes:
 > In HyperAppropos it sets the documention face foreground to firebrick,
 > I would like it to be the same face as my default face.
 > 
 >   (copy-face 'default 'documentation)
 > 
 > This does not work because HyperAppropos calls
 > face-differs-from-default-p, if nil then it sets the face to
 > firebrick.  How can I trick face-differs-from-default-p so it thinks
 > the face is different?

Oh man, I've been bugged by this as well.  I go into Edit Faces,
change the documentation face, and Save Options, only to find
firebrick again (which looks really great against a gray20 background)
next time I use HyperApropos.  Been meaning to ask what was going on
there and how I could fix it...

+-----------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
|John A. Turner         |"Music is the cup which holds the wine of silence;|
|Los Alamos Natl. Lab.  |  sound is that cup, but empty;                   |
|e-mail: turner@lanl.gov|    noise is that cup, but broken."               |
|                       |                        - Robert Fripp            |
+-----------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul  2 01:34:37 1996
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From: Dave Mason <dmason@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199607020634.CAA27275@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: face-differs-from-default-p
In-Reply-To: <199607020428.WAA11945@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
References: <9607011812.AA16974@spacedog.fishkill.ibm.com>
	<199607020428.WAA11945@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
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 !s*He|-*M^p*~bh"Nywm5NLL\\Rl3r(hWHY*F:$/RdKV*bS";n&#\Ov@*=]mu\}6tP<lkW*7FT|:Dm
 9ejO^{)GHJdPQaa"C\<Ak`K27?328'V(u*|jAEZR9-z!o\^j:Cb&*tx_9\KbXD*2

John Turner writes:
> Oh man, I've been bugged by this as well.  I go into Edit Faces,
> change the documentation face, and Save Options, only to find
> firebrick again (which looks really great against a gray20 background)

Well, gee, you should *really* like it on a monochrome display if you
use black background, because firebrick maps to black and is a
*little* hard to read!

My workaround is to:
  (require 'hyper-apropos)
  (set-face-foreground 'documentation "White")
  (set-face-foreground 'hyperlink "White")

Similar things happen in W3.  But I don't have a work-around.  I sent
mail to Bill Perry, but no response.  And I can't even figure out what
font w3 uses (for links), because it doesn't show up in editfaces.

../Dave

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul  2 10:07:16 1996
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 08:16:37 -0700
Message-Id: <199607021516.IAA00238@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@spry.com>
To: Dave Mason <dmason@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: face-differs-from-default-p
In-Reply-To: <199607020634.CAA27275@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <9607011812.AA16974@spacedog.fishkill.ibm.com>
	<199607020428.WAA11945@gielgud.lanl.gov.xdiv>
	<199607020634.CAA27275@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
X-Face: O~Rn;(l][/-o1sALg4A@xpE:9-"'IR[%;,,!m7</SYF`{vYQ(&RI1&EiH[FvT;J}@f!4kfz
 x_!Y#=y{Uuj9GvUi=cPuajQ(Z42R[wE@{G,sn$qGr5g/wnb*"*ktI+,CD}1Z'wxrM2ag-r0p5I6\nA
 [WJopW_J.WY;

Dave Mason writes:
>John Turner writes:
>> Oh man, I've been bugged by this as well.  I go into Edit Faces,
>> change the documentation face, and Save Options, only to find
>> firebrick again (which looks really great against a gray20 background)
>
>Well, gee, you should *really* like it on a monochrome display if you
>use black background, because firebrick maps to black and is a
>*little* hard to read!
>
>My workaround is to:
>  (require 'hyper-apropos)
>  (set-face-foreground 'documentation "White")
>  (set-face-foreground 'hyperlink "White")
>
>Similar things happen in W3.  But I don't have a work-around.  I sent
>mail to Bill Perry, but no response.  And I can't even figure out what
>font w3 uses (for links), because it doesn't show up in editfaces.

 Sorry, I've been a tad swamped lately - moving houses, moving jobs,
vacationing, inlaws visiting this week, parents visiting next
week... AIIIGGGGGH :)

 Emacs-W3 now uses temporary faces, to avoid cluttering up the edit-faces,
etc.  You should _never_ edit the faces directly, but instead use the
stylesheets (I know they are hideously non-documented right now, but I hope
to fix that today) and refresh them.

 In one of the stylesheets, place a section like:

:mono:
blahblahblah

 Check out the .../etc/w3/stylesheet file for an example.

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul  5 18:52:42 1996
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	id m0ucKbw-000HE6C; Fri, 5 Jul 96 16:48 PDT
Message-Id: <m0ucKbw-000HE6C@hackvan.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 96 16:48 PDT
From: stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: elisp compiled for wrong version of emacs...
X-Face: V3#TB_`^vld7L-O4+Qk1%QYVRe6B2)Ia$tWrjprU|P'pM:Y{P5Io@~qxuL:&.;*?KU5.w_J
 ^t3S-[aLM9E*t3PKQ8FJs[+U5BYh4G'6xody^[oR"fukpjVI}3m!<;f)Ptipi4lD,R70]K3$pK"#c`
 [3S!^H~;A&1oo&;)-"R2]5%unJ8QeoXlo7n+h(rLQS?]SCWnHvm3/v7*RXE`,/;8g6j)&/


I think that a graceful error-recovery strategy for .elc files compiled by
the wrong version of emacs would be to load the .el file automatically and
print a warning.  19.14 seems to just silently doesn't load such files at
startup.

Ick.  Big nuisance.

    Stig
    

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul  8 14:31:57 1996
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:33:37 -0700
Message-Id: <199607081933.MAA08385@ives.phx.mcd.mot.com>
From: "Lynn D. Newton" <lnewton@ives.phx.mcd.mot.com>
To: XEmacs Beta Discussion <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: about paragraph filling
Reply-To: lnewton@phx.mcd.mot.com
X-Face:  FVNLrR&aQu[q[N3kO<A5Au*4b"pWyOi13$\H%OVNM8&P{?7;KTRLXSU)c'&Gg3{7GD.p:05
 To5$NCN#r-;vs&Qi@jhk\a@l;bMgx77!GI>4+!:X-+LgxFf'("(:8&7z+:!,24n1@j?C25:p>hno)_
 hPa5S&WgH"E-!{{N^-Cx}MiI_O'dU0
Comments: Hyperbole mail buttons accepted, v03.19.01.


The NEWS file says the following:

------------------------ quote ------------------------

-- We have incorporated nearly all of the functionality of GNU Emacs
   19.30 into XEmacs.  This includes support for lazy-loaded
   byte code and documentation strings, improved paragraph filling,
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

---------------------- end quote ----------------------

Exactly what does "improved paragraph filling" mean?
Ever since somewhere in the middle of the 19.14 beta
cycle certain custom fill functions have not been
working quite like I expect them to. (I.e., they are
broken.) I thought that filling was working just fine
as it was. How did they "improve" it?

===============================================
Lynn D. Newton
Motorola Computer Group
Business: http://ives.phx.mcd.mot.com/~lnewton
Personal: http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~lnewton
===============================================

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul 12 10:53:51 1996
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Message-Id: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.68)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:53:45 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>

Or whatever other Web crud would work for best for what I'm looking
for.  I need to conduct a general survey of the XEmacs user base.  It
seems to me that putting some kind of form at www.xemacs.org would be
a good way to do this.  I can provide the list of questions I need
asked but I don't have the time to actually generate the HTML form
even if I wouldn't have to learn how first :-)  There needs to be some
kind of simple collection and summary mechanism as well.

This survey will potentially play a crucial part in XEmacs future
growth and development.  You're help is needed to make it happen.  Any
takers?

Suggestions for other ways of doing such a survey are also welcome.


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul 12 11:40:18 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:50:26 -0700
Message-Id: <199607121650.JAA07438@monolith.spry.com>
From: William Perry <wmperry@spry.com>
To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
In-Reply-To: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
Errors-to: wmperry@spry.com
Reply-to: wmperry@spry.com
X-Face: O~Rn;(l][/-o1sALg4A@xpE:9-"'IR[%;,,!m7</SYF`{vYQ(&RI1&EiH[FvT;J}@f!4kfz
 x_!Y#=y{Uuj9GvUi=cPuajQ(Z42R[wE@{G,sn$qGr5g/wnb*"*ktI+,CD}1Z'wxrM2ag-r0p5I6\nA
 [WJopW_J.WY;

Chuck Thompson writes:

>Or whatever other Web crud would work for best for what I'm looking for.
>I need to conduct a general survey of the XEmacs user base.  It seems to
>me that putting some kind of form at www.xemacs.org would be a good way to
>do this.  I can provide the list of questions I need asked but I don't
>have the time to actually generate the HTML form even if I wouldn't have
>to learn how first :-) There needs to be some kind of simple collection
>and summary mechanism as well.
>
>This survey will potentially play a crucial part in XEmacs future growth
>and development.  You're help is needed to make it happen.  Any takers?
>
>Suggestions for other ways of doing such a survey are also welcome.

  I'll do it. :)  I guess I've got a little experience.

  What questions do you need, what type of reporting do you need from it?

  As for alternate ways of doing such a survey would be to put a copy in
etc/SURVEY and ask people to fill it out (on the same splash screen as the
copyright messages, etc, and from the help menu).

-Bill P.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul 12 11:54:02 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:53:38 -0700
Message-Id: <199607121653.JAA01224@sandman.cisco.com>
From: Dan Rich <drich@cisco.com>
To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
In-Reply-To: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
References: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: drich@cisco.com
X-Face: >>@YIrj6h(9FH@Qs_-ob2y~:HhB3<K:s^%ne_GjM`oNo3yFzbT'Kover1p6Qf|2_'8inv!W
 x^4ApmkH}yJ*clwm{;w(]]EV=YexeKB[\$G>j#fE)'04Kv^h\Yc+PG%t~'xXevX509R
X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with "faces" or "xmail" (X11R5 contrib tape).
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.71)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:

    Chuck> Or whatever other Web crud would work for best for what I'm
    Chuck> looking for.  I need to conduct a general survey of the
    Chuck> XEmacs user base.  It seems to me that putting some kind of
    Chuck> form at www.xemacs.org would be a good way to do this.  I
    Chuck> can provide the list of questions I need asked but I don't
    Chuck> have the time to actually generate the HTML form even if I
    Chuck> wouldn't have to learn how first :-) There needs to be some
    Chuck> kind of simple collection and summary mechanism as well.

    Chuck> This survey will potentially play a crucial part in XEmacs
    Chuck> future growth and development.  You're help is needed to
    Chuck> make it happen.  Any takers?

    Chuck> Suggestions for other ways of doing such a survey are also
    Chuck> welcome.

If you can give me the questions, I can build up a form for you (just
don't tell my boss! :-)  Also, I have a generic perl "mailform" script
that we can use to e-mail the form output back to you or whoever will
tabulate the results.  Or, did you want the results automatically
tabulated to a file?

-- 
Dan Rich <drich@cisco.com>  |	http://reality.sgi.com/drich/
Webmaster                   | "Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!" 
Cisco Systems, Inc.         |   "No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
(408) 527-3195              |           -- The Firesign Theatre's Nick Danger

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul 12 15:36:15 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:34:06 -0400
From: gra@zeppo.East.Sun.COM (Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS)
Message-Id: <199607122034.QAA25447@zeppo.East.Sun.COM>
To: cthomp@xemacs.org, drich@cisco.com
Subject: Re: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII

I've had a lot of success using cgiemail for quick forms:

   http://web.mit.edu/wwwdev/www/dist/mit-dcns-cgi.html

It's a simple C program that uses a template file to pop up
a form and to email back the results.

$.02


> From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Jul 12 13:05:02 1996
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:53:38 -0700
> From: Dan Rich <drich@cisco.com>
> To: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>
> Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
> Subject: Re: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
> X-Face: >>@YIrj6h(9FH@Qs_-ob2y~:HhB3<K:s^%ne_GjM`oNo3yFzbT'Kover1p6Qf|2_'8inv!W
>  x^4ApmkH}yJ*clwm{;w(]]EV=YexeKB[\$G>j#fE)'04Kv^h\Yc+PG%t~'xXevX509R
> X-Planation: X-Face can be viewed with "faces" or "xmail" (X11R5 contrib tape).
> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.71)
> 
> >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:
> 
>     Chuck> Or whatever other Web crud would work for best for what I'm
>     Chuck> looking for.  I need to conduct a general survey of the
>     Chuck> XEmacs user base.  It seems to me that putting some kind of
>     Chuck> form at www.xemacs.org would be a good way to do this.  I
>     Chuck> can provide the list of questions I need asked but I don't
>     Chuck> have the time to actually generate the HTML form even if I
>     Chuck> wouldn't have to learn how first :-) There needs to be some
>     Chuck> kind of simple collection and summary mechanism as well.
> 
>     Chuck> This survey will potentially play a crucial part in XEmacs
>     Chuck> future growth and development.  You're help is needed to
>     Chuck> make it happen.  Any takers?
> 
>     Chuck> Suggestions for other ways of doing such a survey are also
>     Chuck> welcome.
> 
> If you can give me the questions, I can build up a form for you (just
> don't tell my boss! :-)  Also, I have a generic perl "mailform" script
> that we can use to e-mail the form output back to you or whoever will
> tabulate the results.  Or, did you want the results automatically
> tabulated to a file?
> 
> -- 
> Dan Rich <drich@cisco.com>  |	http://reality.sgi.com/drich/
> Webmaster                   | "Danger, you haven't seen the last of me!" 
> Cisco Systems, Inc.         |   "No, but the first of you turns my stomach!"
> (408) 527-3195              |           -- The Firesign Theatre's Nick Danger
> 

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Jul 13 15:13:47 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: volunteer with HTML forms experience needed
References: <199607121553.KAA04792@xemacs.cs.uiuc.edu>
X-Url: http://www.miranova.com/%7Esteve/
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Face: #!T9!#9s-3o8)*uHlX{Ug[xW7E7Wr!*L46-OxqMu\xz23v|R9q}lH?cRS{rCNe^'[`^sr5"
 f8*@r4ipO6Jl!:Ccq<xoV[Qz2u8<8-+Vwf2gzJ44lf_/y9OaQ`@#Q65{U4/TC)i2`~/M&QI$X>p:9I
 OSS'2{-)-4wBnVeg0S\O4Al@)uC[pD|+
From: Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com>
In-Reply-To: Chuck Thompson's message of Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:53:45 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.71)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Date: 13 Jul 1996 13:12:13 -0700
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Lines: 15
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.34/XEmacs 19.14

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org> writes:


Chuck> This survey will potentially play a crucial part in XEmacs future
Chuck> growth and development.  You're help is needed to make it happen.  Any
Chuck> takers?

Chuck> Suggestions for other ways of doing such a survey are also welcome.

I can put the survey into section 6 of the FAQ.
-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour.
Andrea Seastrand: For your vote on the Telecom bill, I will vote for anyone
except you in November.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul 16 10:33:26 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: expert in Japanese internationalization?
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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:33:21 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@xemacs.org>

and possibly looking for a job?  Let me know and I can give you a
little more info on a potential opening (not XEmacs related).


			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul 16 16:16:17 1996
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To: Andy Norman <ange@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Cc: XEmacs Discuss <xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Info files not created under XEmacs 19.14
References: <x54tn9p911.fsf@cuthbert.hpl.hp.com>
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From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no>
Date: 16 Jul 1996 23:16:09 +0200
In-Reply-To: Andy Norman's message of 15 Jul 1996 20:16:10 +0000
Message-ID: <w8sspardhly.fsf@hler.ifi.uio.no>
Lines: 31
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.2.36/Emacs 19.31

Andy Norman <ange@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:

> Folks, this may be a XEmacs problem rather than a Gnus problem...  if so,
> apologies for posting it here...
> 
> When grabbing and compiling a new Gnus release I find that the .info
> files are *not* created by doing a make.  I have to manually load
> the .texi files and issue the relevant texinfo commands myself on
> the buffer before saving the buffer.
> 
> What happens is that the xemacs process starts up, loads texinfo, and then
> immediately exits again (with no apparent error) *without* executing
> 'texinfo-every-node-update' or  'texinfo-format-buffer'.

So it does -- I hadn't noticed this before.

This is what happens when I try to make the info files using XEmacs:

~/sgnus/texi 542>make EMACS=xemacs
xemacs -batch -q -no-site-file message.texi -l texinfmt -f texinfo-every-node-update -f texinfo-format-buffer -f save-buffer
Loading texinfo...
~/sgnus/texi 543>

No info files are generated. 

If I do this manually in an interactive XEmacs, everything works as
advertised. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Jul 25 02:16:41 1996
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 00:16 PDT
From: stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
CC: rms@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: Should `normal-mode' run find-file-hooks?


Many times, the minor mode that are used to view a file are activated from
the `find-file-hooks'.

Would it be appropriate to run this hook from `normal-mode'?  Probably not,
but it's worth a few moments of collective consideration...

    Stig
    

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Jul 29 05:13:09 1996
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 96 03:12 PDT
From: stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: make-indirect-buffer: how much work?


How much work is there lurking behind the task of finishing
indirect buffers?

The comment says
    /* #### implement this!  Need various changes in insdel.c */
and my mind-reading isn't perfected yet.  There's some indirect_p stuff
in insdel.c already, but that looks fine.

I was all set to evangelize the beauties and potentials of a folding-mode
that actually worked like it was supposed to instead of being crippled by
selective display and narrowing...only to find upon double-checking my
understanding of the necessary mechanisms that, horror-of-horrors, 
XEmacs is behind the technology curve on this front.

    Stig
    

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Sat Aug  3 05:18:37 1996
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Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 03:18:35 -0700
Message-Id: <199608031018.DAA29957@shellx.best.com>
From: Ben Wing <wing@666.com>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu, stig@hackvan.com (Stig)
Subject: Re:  make-indirect-buffer: how much work?

You need to keep separate lists of extents.  The FSF implementation
did some really weird hack that happened to work due to their
inefficient usage of markers for overlays, and didn't require very
many code changes to insdel.c (which would have been extremely
difficult considering how ugly that code is).  Those weird FSF hacks
won't work; we'll have to do it right, which takes a bit more work
but should not be all that difficult because our insdel.c code is
fairly clean.  I was going to get it to at some point but never
quite did.

ben

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Aug  6 06:00:54 1996
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:00:18 +0300
Message-Id: <9608061100.AA22455@tahma.tekla.fi>
From: Kim Nyberg <kny@tahma.tekla.fi>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: call-process-internal problems on alpha digital unix
X-Face:  $_z@yqXbv>fPV"?qLs0%@+>1'5TP&kueXZ0$brf)r\RS1aOr>X1GC#3"S+*(
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?58pIv,Ca%.OP=3Dk-bwL*5p3cPKH}\siecNS+24D~JW$cf2$KU$xju}5|{y3N|Q[!3H.yOS4v?=
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We ran into some strange problems with vc.el yesterday, and after a
nice little debug session I found out that call-process-internal
always returns 0, regardless of the actual exit status of the process.
This is rather annoying, because vc relies on the exit status, and if
it is not correct it will not notice that a locked file has changed,
and thus revert to the previous version (additional bonus: we noticed
that our backups have failed for the last 3 weeks or so, luckily we
lost only a few changes to a file, and those changes were recoverable
through making xemacs coredump and pick out the (almost) complete
remains of the file :)

Anyway, this is something that has changed from 19.13 to 19.14, and I
don't have the time to debug this any further. Am I the only one who
has experienced this?

Try evaluating

(call-process-internal "cat" nil t nil "/ugly/fat/cat")

which should return 2. If it returns 0, you're *cked ;9

Kim

Ps.
kny@kitt:/usr/local/tmp/xemacs-19.14/src: uname -a
OSF1 kitt.tekla.fi V3.2 214 alpha

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Aug  6 07:00:45 1996
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From: Stephen Carney <carney@gvc.dec.com>
To: Kim Nyberg <kny@tahma.tekla.fi>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: RE: call-process-internal problems on alpha digital unix
In-Reply-To: <9608061100.AA22455@tahma.tekla.fi>
References: <9608061100.AA22455@tahma.tekla.fi>
Reply-To: carney@gvc.dec.com
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 0p"&#\I

kny@tahma.tekla.fi (Kim Nyberg) writes, in <9608061100.AA22455@tahma.tekla.fi>:

>We ran into some strange problems with vc.el yesterday, and after a
>nice little debug session I found out that call-process-internal
>always returns 0, regardless of the actual exit status of the process.

Get the latest DUNIX binaries from xemacs.org; they were updated
recently with a fix for this.  If you build your own XEmacs, then apply
the 19.14 patch from <http://www-digital.cern.ch/carney/emacs/emacs.html>.

        Steve

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Aug 12 13:19:59 1996
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To: Vladimir.Ivanovic@mri.com
cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: Obtaining the name of the current X display? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:12:25 PDT."
             <199608121812.LAA10973@mri.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:19:46 -0500
From: Chuck Thompson <cthomp@cs.uiuc.edu>

    Vladimir> Is there a way of knowning the name of the current X
    Vladimir> display, typically something like ":0." or "allez:0.0"?

(device-connection) is what you are looking for.



			-Chuck

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Aug 12 13:12:29 1996
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Obtaining the name of the current X display?
Reply-To: Vladimir.Ivanovic@mri.com
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 11:12:25 -0700
From: "Vladimir G. Ivanovic" <Vladimir.Ivanovic@mri.com>

Is there a way of knowning the name of the current X display, typically
something like ":0." or "allez:0.0"? 

Thanks.

-- Vladimir

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Mon Sep 23 10:34:00 1996
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From: Eric Eide <eeide@cs.utah.edu>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: plists vs. alists?

Just curious: What is the rationale behind the recent move from alists to
plists for certain lists such as frame properties?  (This is a relatively
recent change, isn't it?  I guess I've been snoozing...)

Eric.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide@cs.utah.edu>  .   University of Utah Dept. of Computer Science
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide  . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Sep 24 06:19:29 1996
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From: Russell Ritchie <ritchier@msc.ie>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu
Subject: mode-motion+ default motion handlers

While replying to <kig20fx3xiz.fsf@jagor.srce.hr> on how to configure
mode-motion+ to enable window focus-follows-mouse mode for XEmacs (as opposed
to frame focus-follows-mouse which, as we all know, is Out There in the wacky
world of window-managers), it occurred to me that the set of default
mode-motion+ handlers has been gathering dust for quite a few releases now,
and probably require revision.

This code dates from a time when very few XEmacs modes had any mouse [motion]
support at all.  This is not true now, and in quite a few places mode-motion+
may well not be adding value any more (typically the line-based modes, such
as Dired, compilation and the various summary modes).  Better integration
with the base XEmacs facilities (at least, as usual) is required.

I'll probably pull mode-motion+ support for these modes, by default, for
19.15 (Chuck permitting).  Does anyone who's read this far care?  Has anyone
read this far?  Does anyone want to help?

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Oct  3 04:39:05 1996
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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:34:46 -0700
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From: Ben Wing <wing@666.com>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@cs.uiuc.edu, Russell Ritchie <ritchier@msc.ie>
Subject: Re:  mode-motion+ default motion handlers

You've got my blessings ...  do what you want as long as it doesn't
break things overly :)

ben

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Thu Oct 24 10:55:17 1996
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From: wkirk <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com>
Organization: Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
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Subject: Emacs Window in a glyph
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I'm looking to do something similar to the as-yet unimplemented subwindow 
stuff except that I want it to contain an Emacs window rather than a 
generic X window.  I want thoughts and ideas, especially from anybody 
familiar with the subwindow stuff or the redisplay mechanism.  (and yes, 
I am volunteering to do the work :-).  As a side-effect, I'm planning on 
adding the `draw a border around a glyph' feature that's been requested.

One idea I had is that the window (or windows, if there is a split) would 
be rendered into the glyph and then displayed identically everywhere that 
glyph is displayed.  The glyph itself would become another output device. 
 The problem that I see here is that Emacs would want to put a frame in 
there and not just a window (which means that it gets an echo area).

My other idea is to let redisplay treat the glyph as a (almost) normal 
window and render into it as usual, except that the rendering is clipped 
to the visible portion of the glyph, and that the same window could 
possibly be visible in several places at once.

Anybody have any thoughts?

-Joel

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Oct 25 11:20:46 1996
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From: wkirk <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com>
Organization: Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
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Actually, I've already implemented it and just wanted to know if it was 
of general interest.  Basically, I needed something that would get called 
after all frames have been deleted, but before sub processes have been 
killed.  delete-frame-hook contains a function which writes to a process. 
 The process also needs to know when emacs is going away and no more data 
will be written to it so that it can do some cleanup (it communicates 
with yet other processes on the system).  Therefore, I need a hook after 
kill-emacs-hook but before emacs kills child processes.

The new hook is called shutdown-emacs-hook and is called from 
shutdown_emacs in emacs.c right before it sets prepare_for_armageddon to 
1.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Fri Oct 25 21:10:08 1996
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From: Martin Buchholz <mrb@eng.sun.com>
To: wkirk <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com>
Cc: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org
Subject: Emacs Window in a glyph
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>>>>> "Joel" == wkirk  <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com> writes:

Joel> One idea I had is that the window (or windows, if there is a split) would 
Joel> be rendered into the glyph and then displayed identically everywhere that 
Joel> glyph is displayed.  The glyph itself would become another output device. 
Joel>  The problem that I see here is that Emacs would want to put a frame in 
Joel> there and not just a window (which means that it gets an echo area).

Frames don't have to have a minibuffer (but putting a frame inside a
glyph inside a frame seems kinda strange):

set-frame-properties: (FRAME PLIST)
  -- a built-in function.
Change some properties of a frame.
PLIST is a property list.
You can also change frame properties individually using `set-frame-property',
but it may be more efficient to change many properties at once.

Frame properties can be retrieved using `frame-property' or `frame-properties'.

The following symbols etc. have predefined meanings:

...

 minibuffer	Gives the minibuffer behavior for this frame.  Either
		t (frame has its own minibuffer), `only' (frame is
		a minibuffer-only frame), or a window (frame uses that
		window, which is on another frame, as the minibuffer).

...


From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:53:38 1996
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:52:47 -0800
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From: Ben Wing <ben@666.com>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org, wkirk <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com>
Subject: Re:  feature proposal: shutdown-emacs-hook

This sounds good to me...

ben
--
(This message composed by voice)

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Oct 29 02:53:49 1996
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 00:51:54 -0800
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From: Ben Wing <ben@666.com>
To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org, wkirk <wkirk@wsj.dowjones.com>
Subject: Re:  Emacs Window in a glyph

>I'm looking to do something similar to the as-yet unimplemented subwindow 
>stuff except that I want it to contain an Emacs window rather than a 
>generic X window.  I want thoughts and ideas, especially from anybody 
>familiar with the subwindow stuff or the redisplay mechanism.  (and yes, 
>I am volunteering to do the work :-).  As a side-effect, I'm planning on 
>adding the `draw a border around a glyph' feature that's been requested.

"unreimplemented" you should say, since it was implemented prior to 19.12...

At one point, I was planning on allowing an Emacs frame to go other than
in a top-level window, and if you look at the resizing code you'll see some
ifdeffed-out code to handle this case.  At that time I did have in mind
exactly this application...

There are probably some strange issues with events to be worked out,
but I imagine it's all doable.

>One idea I had is that the window (or windows, if there is a split) would 
>be rendered into the glyph and then displayed identically everywhere that 
>glyph is displayed.  The glyph itself would become another output device. 
> The problem that I see here is that Emacs would want to put a frame in 
>there and not just a window (which means that it gets an echo area).

Interesting... You probably want to do it this way --

>My other idea is to let redisplay treat the glyph as a (almost) normal 
>window and render into it as usual, except that the rendering is clipped 
>to the visible portion of the glyph, and that the same window could 
>possibly be visible in several places at once.

-- and not this way, because Emacs likes its windows to be nicely tiled.
It should not be hard to figure out how to redirect the echo area elsewhere,
similar to a minibufferless frame.

ben
--
(This message composed by voice)



From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Oct 29 22:05:46 1996
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From: Joel Peterson <tarzan@aosi.com>
Organization: Me Tarzan, you Jane?
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"Ben Wing" <ben@666.com> writes:
> There are probably some strange issues with events to be worked out,
> but I imagine it's all doable.
> 
> >One idea I had is that the window (or windows, if there is a split) would 
> >be rendered into the glyph and then displayed identically everywhere that 
> >glyph is displayed.  The glyph itself would become another output device. 
> > The problem that I see here is that Emacs would want to put a frame in 
> >there and not just a window (which means that it gets an echo area).
> 
> Interesting... You probably want to do it this way --

OK, I'll do it (I'm posting this from my home e-mail address; from work
I'm wkirk, who's actually my boss, but we underlings don't get useful
internet accounts).  I think I've got displaying the "frame in a glyph"
worked out and just need to write some code to implement the glyph
device.  I'm still trying to avoid even thinking about input and those
strange event issues that you mentioned above, but I'll get around to it
soon enough.  I'm probably going to end up with the glyph "inheriting"
events from the frame that it's displayed in.  If the glyph is active,
then the frame will forward its events to the glyph device.  Unless
there's a better way that I'm missing that Ben or somebody can point out
to me.

-- 
And on the Eighth day, the Lord said "Let there be Advertisements."  And
lo,
there were advertisements.  And the Lord saw the advertisements.  And
the Lord
went to the kitchen for a snack.
                     - Joel Peterson
                            Supreme Deputy of scratching Dogbert behind
the
                            ears until he has little leg spasms.

From xemacs-beta-discuss-request@cs.uiuc.edu  Tue Nov  5 15:21:24 1996
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Organization: Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
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To: xemacs-beta-discuss@xemacs.org, Ben Wing <ben@666.com>
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Ben Wing wrote:
> >One idea I had is that the window (or windows, if there is a split) would
> >be rendered into the glyph and then displayed identically everywhere that
> >glyph is displayed.  The glyph itself would become another output device.
> > The problem that I see here is that Emacs would want to put a frame in
> >there and not just a window (which means that it gets an echo area).
> 
> Interesting... You probably want to do it this way --

Well, I've done this and only have one problem (other than the occasional, ok, 
frequent, core dumps :-).  Emacs properly creates the glyph, console, device
and frames on the "glyph device".  However, it doesn't get redisplayed 
properly.  I took the tact that a glyph frame should only get redisplayed when 
then glyph containing it got redisplayed; so I essentially need a way to mark 
whatever frames are displaying the glyph frame as having a glyph change 
whenever a change to a buffer that is displayed in the glyph frame gets 
changed.  So the question is ... How do I do this?  My bet is that 
somewhere along the line I'll have to pretend that there was an image property 
change, but I have no idea where that should go.

Some background: A glyph device lives inside of a glyph (which must be a glyph 
of type sub-frame) and has a locale which can be either a device or a single 
frame.  A frame on that glyph device also has a locale which must be a subset 
of the device's locale and be either a frame or a device.  At most one glyph 
frame can exist in any particular locale.  A glyph frame is displayed when it 
is used as the begin or end glyph for an extent.  As such, a single glyph frame 
can end up being displayed in multiple positions on the screen just by being 
placed into multiple visible positions in buffers displayed within its locale.

A sub-frame glyph contains a color-pixmap image instance for each frame in its 
corresponding glyph device.  Rendering for a frame draws directly into this 
pixmap.  The pixmap is then displayed using the normal redisplay code.

- Joel Peterson

